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Femmephobia exists in the LGBT community. I think it’s not exclusive to the LGBT community though, but wait, before anything else, what does femmephobia mean even?
Femmephobia or femmemisia, according to this article, is defined as “hatred of all people who are perceived as femme, feminine, effeminate, and/or twink regardless of their gender. A direct result of femmephobia is the oppression of anybody whose gender presentation is in any way classified as being on the female-end of the gender binary due to their fashion sense, behavior, or mannerisms.”
In short, a person is femmephobic when he or she or they are mocking and bullying people regardless of their gender for liking or doing things that are deemed as “feminine.” Liking the color pink for example, painting nails, and they are also “made to feel lesser for expressing specific emotions, especially crying” which means the phrase “real men don’t cry” is actually femmephobic.
Anyway, we’re bringing this up because there’s a debate raging over femmephobia in the LGBT community on Reddit. A user named doesgayshit on askgaybros brought this up, he said that he stumbled upon a comment that reads, “Fem/flamboyancy: I want a man. I am not attracted to guys who paint their nails, dye their hair weird colors, or go out of their way to act girly/effeminate.”
The original poster of the thread then implored readers to “talk about this in a different way.” He said:
Feminine men are men. They are not masculine, but they are men, and suggesting otherwise is kind of fucked up. Just because someone doesn’t adhere to your particular definition of masculinity doesn’t make them not a man. It’s okay to not be attracted to them, I’m certainly not whatsoever. We are allowed to be attracted to whoever we want. They aren’t less of a man because of that. They’re being themselves whether people like it or not. What could be more manly than that?
A reader named EarthQuest commented, “I like feminine guys, but where exactly is the line between feminine and masculine? I’m sure most guys have a mix of traits unless they are arbitrarily holding themselves back.”
User desiringmachine93 on the other hand, said, “Honestly most fem guys I know also talk like that about other fem guys. 🙃 They always complain about masc guys not wanting to date them and then when I ask why they don’t want to date femme guys they say things like ‘I am looking for a man.’ Lol.”
In addition to the comments above, user LordCrinoline said:
It really goes further than that by using bottom as an insult, and I hate it. I do believe in this too, that he’s still a man, whether he adheres to your stale gender roles or not. Men could also still be masculine if they enjoy some conventionally feminine things on the side, but not on Candace Owens’ watch apparently.
But it was user Themaleslayer’s comment that really says it all. Whether he shows his feminine side or his masculine side, people find a problem either way so I guess the moral of the story is for us to just be ourselves at all times. He explained, “Yep, you’re damned if you do, and you’re damned if you don’t. I’ve been told I’m ‘too gay’ and ‘too straight’ before. It’s a whole thing.”
Meanwhile, a postdoctoral researcher named Rhea Ashley Hoskin explained that it is important to talk about femmephobia. Knowing more about it helps us to “get past it,” she said, and hopefully during the process we learn to revalue femininity as this can “catalyze systemic change.”
Further, Hoskin said that femmephobia causes harm, that devaluing and regulating femininity can “fuel other forms of prejudice.” She added, “Ultimately, I think that re-valuing femininity offers a useful strategy to combat issues like misogyny, sexism, homophobia, transmisogyny, and rape culture (to name a few).”
Having said all that, what about you, guys? What’s your story? Have you ever experienced femmephobia? Did you ever have to act more feminine or more masculine to suit other people’s fancy? Share with us your thoughts and stories in the comments section below!
I don’t hate fem-guys, they just don’t turn me on either, in the past I had a very close friend who was feminine. But I also am not attracted to really masculine-acting macho-guys either. I think fem-guys are pretty brave actually. And as for bottoming, what’s wrong with it? I think it takes a real man to bottom for a man as well as the reverse. Just stop, with all the damn denigrations, it’s just another form of fear isn’t it?
Definitely not “femmephobia.” Everyone has their tastes and attractions. Some people are into bears or leather guys or furry’s, etc. This “forced phobia” in the gay community is getting ridiculously out of hand. Wish people would stop pushing their agendas and preferences on others who are not interested whether you’re fem, masc, trans, nonbinary, chub, bear, twink, and whatever other category, title or descript/nondescript you want to use. Just because someone doesn’t like your personality or appearance doesn’t mean they’re phobic or even prejudiced. Pick up your feelings and move on to the next one. No one should be forced… Read more »
One of the best written comments I have seen in these forums!
Bravo! This is exactly how I feel about the whole thing. Doesn’t the suffix “phobia” mean a fear of, not hatred toward?? Curious minds wanna know.
Dudebadd well said. You couldn’t have said it any better.
i agree. i find some gays are the real fascists is some regards, and some of the most intolerant hypocrites and i refuse to drive myself into a psychosis attempting to reconcile the madness
Well said, this is, as per usual a top down agenda, the morphing of homosexuality into the anti- masculinity agenda. Beleive it or not, there is a war on being a man. The hairless, shaved male is all over the porno world, not because guys started liking to lose their pubic hair, but because it was pushed as “attractive” by the porn industry. The porn industry can hire who they wish, and if you want to do pornos, you better shave it off. That is why you have to go back into the 80’s to see real men. This it… Read more »
As a bottom, call me “girl” or mention my ass as a “pussy” I’m done. Mood irreparably ruined.♂️
I love this entire post. My brother and I were having this same conversation. If I wanted to be forced to like something I have zero sexual interest in, I’d stay in the damn closet. Amazing reply. Can we get together after mass-vaccination and toast to this guy?
Why are people’s preferences or dislikes labeled as “phobias”? Everyone surely isn’t going to like the same things. That’s what makes us all unique as individuals. You or I are not going to be liked by or preferred by everyone else…that’s just the way it is. That doesn’t give anyone right to call someone a “whatever-phobe”. If you don’t prefer someone (whether it be race, height, weight, hairy, bearded, smooth, eye color, dick size, semen volume, location, political affiliation…you get the point) it isn’t a personal attack and shouldn’t be viewed that way. I’m a bear type guy and happen… Read more »
yeah there is a difference though. Tastes and preferences are ok. Bullying someone for being fem, or calling him faggot on social media or this blog or in a dating profile makes a person idiot and femmephobic.
As a bisexual Dave, I can assure you I’ve face more bullying on this site than anywhere with the asinine comments and denial of my comments being posted. Bullying is a sad fact, and unfortunately a fact on this site.
Jim, I am also bisexual and understand what you are saying. I can say I’ve truly never been bullied on the site but a lot of guys will insert their opinions and tell me there’s no such thing as “bisexual”.
Politely bowing out of a conversation like that goes a long way for keeping my sanity.
Yeah lol I get bullied for wanting to date, and find Mr. Right, instead of wanting a hookup.
For what it’s worth, the most fun and drama free times I had, and the most satisfying repeat meet friendships I had, were with bi guys, younger than I am, trying to broaden their experience of sensation and emotion. We reinforced each other’s male personhood. I don’t know why anyone would down you for being bi. I’m gay, and bi is just somebody with a wider opportunity, in my view.
Sticks and stones, as someone who works in academia, if you embrace your masculinity you are more likely to face far worse than “bullying”.
Why do I need to “embrace” my masculinity? I am a retired combat soldier and I embraced my masculinity long ago. The sad fact is that the world of academia has spawned many, many bullshit ideas of late and think everyone need too follow suit. I chose my path, no one else.
I have a lot of respect for you and value your input BUT….
I’m just not buying the “phobia” part of this. Bullying someone is NEVER ok! No mater what the subject matter may be. Someone who does that already has a word for them…it’s “bully”. I will also accept “rude oppressive opinionated asshole”.
The concept of “bullying”, basically someone being rude or an ass is often the justification for extreme measures such as censorship. I am white, I grew up in a black school in DC, I got bullied a lot, beat up a lot, but I also developed many close black friends. Life is not a “safe zone”, it can be tough, you learn to deal with it. The greatest threat to a free society is censorship, and censorship is everywhere today. The concept of “bullying” is often USED as a justification for big brother to monitor speech/conversations. Learning to deal with… Read more »
I’d have to say that that is the minority of people who act that way.
If, in fact…you remain to true to yourself…
you wouldn’t worry about acting in a specified way to attract either sex or a mate….
Always be yourself and Humanity, will get-the-message, and act accordingly. Anyone who demands a certain perspective is doing so to control…not appreciate.
Use your feet to walk away…there will always be someone who will greet you, warmly, and accept you as you choose to be…not as you are demanded to be… .
You set the preference and you pay the price…but the cross you will bare…will never be more than you can carry.
The only barriers I have toward making/having friends are those involved in bigotry or racism or fascism, or anything that isolates certain groups of people as an ‘other’ to be treated unequally. I’m sure most of us here would agree that it’s wrong and contemptible to treat feminine men with mockery, bullying, or any kind of discrimination, such as we gay/bi/trans men would not want to be treated that way either. Participating in hate towards anyone, specifically toward people you don’t know personally, is a waste of energy, and is a stupid mindset that only comes back to bite you… Read more »
Nobody is required to date people to whom one is not attracted. Nobody has the right to compel anyone to date them who does not wish to. If males are attracted to other males, and the masculinity (rather non-femininity) of the males to whom they are attracted is an issue, it’s nobody else’s business. Turning down an individual who is completely unarousing is the right of any free individual, exactly as lesbians cannot be compelled to desire men, and gay men cannot be compelled to desire women.
I’m a masculine man who enjoy dating fems. Most view fems as flamboyant in public. I like the classy elegant, refined, educated, career oriented intellectual one. To me fem starts in the mind in how they feel about themselves. They think and want to be treated as a woman. As a man my mind views them as a woman even if we have the same body parts below. They same as i enjoy kissing, hugging cuddling ect. I’ve never been with anyone masculine. Masculine and handsome men don’t do it for me. Everyone has their choice in who the want… Read more »
Exactly. I think when a man is adamant about having a masculine man, is because he himself is feminine-in-nature
I agree with you.thats a choice you made and are happy with it.i ,personally am not into overly effeminate men,and when I was coming out in the 80’s,felt obligated to snap my fingers and call my friends”girl”because they all did.until I got wise and knew that I didn’t feel natural,doing that.but,peer pressure won at the time.now,I know what I want and feel people should know what they want.and,I find it confusing trying to remember all of these diff event pronouns that we are obligated to remember.if youre a boy youre a boy.if youre a few boy,youre still a boy,even if… Read more »
I bet times were better back then to without all the labels. No one used top, bottom, verse, fem, masculine or whatever back then. If to people met up talked ect we both knew who was screw who and both enjoy each other. Fast forward these labels has put a damper on things. It didn’t matter how big I was, only if I had the skills to handle what I was seeking from them. I haven’t dated in years because of my choice….fems seem to be a dying breed or many are pretending to be who they truly aren’t. Anyway… Read more »
I am not attracted to anything female. Fem guys included. But I don’t have a “phobia” about it. I’m not scared of, or hate guys who are that way. It’s just not my thing. Boner killer for me. But you do you.
Yeah I’m like an in-between and I have best friends throughout the spectrum from trans and guys who do drag, to straight men who do hard labor jobs. I can get along with anyone. I see the feminine guys though, like sisters, but every once in a while I’ll actually be attracted to them and want to fuck. Then I see the masculine guys like brothers, and more often than not I want to fuck them too. I guess that’s how it is for someone who’s right in between.
Go ahead and be yourself. Just don’t bitch when other men say they don’t want to date feminine acting men. Personally I don’t want a man whose idea of roughing it for the weekend is the holiday inn, can’t get some dirt under his fingernails, doesn’t know how to operate a power tool (any power tool) and wants to wear dainty things to make himself feel sexy. If I just described you, then do you boo! Live it up! Have the best time you can all the time you can and don’t let anybody bring you down when they say… Read more »
ive always said some things just arent meant for some people
I’m a giant of a man and am balanced in my male and female energies. I think androgyny is a natural way to be. I like androgynous men and manly men. I don’t like stereotypes, though.
Like myself, I think a lot of guys don’t like stereotypical fem gay behavior. There is a whole sect of gays that fall into this pattern…speaking, dressing, walking, esthetics, etc. There is a difference between fem characteristics (which i enjoy in an otherwise butch man) and learned behavior. Millennials seem to be really susceptible to stereotypical femmness, perhaps from being way too influenced by media.
I like fem guys. What I don’t like is superficiality, and deceptive behavior that is all too common with gay men.
I don’t get it. Hatred of guys (people) who might be feminine? The world is full of real problems, and this ‘article’ finds hatred where none exists.
Gays have incredible, fantastic stories and yet all I see here is negativity and hate. If someone isn’t attracted to someone else, fine.
Nobody can be forced to like something they don’t like. Body shape and size, age, hair, and masculine/feminine expression are what makes us who we are. Just because someone isn’t interested doesn’t make it hatred. geez…..
it also doesnt make you scared. never understood “homophobia” or “transphobia”. i would/do not have the same fight or flight response to a trans person (id be willing to bet that no one actually does lol) the same way i have/would react to a big spider dangling from a web in front of my face while strapped in my car careening down 95.
im a dude who is attracted to dudes. i dont understand drag. i dont understand why men dress up as not only women, but caricatures of women – the gender i am not interested in. with that in mind, the same goes for dating and hooking up. i am interested in a man who has similar traits to me: facial hair, short hair, natural body hair (trimming down there is fine, etc), masculine voice, etc etc. i imagine some dudes go out of their way to act fem in hopes that guys out and about will notice them? i imagine… Read more »
but that’s your tastes, but you know that sexuality is no black or white right? It’s a continuum with many shades of grey. Some are very straight, some are very gay, some are bi, some are straight but open to experience, etc etc. This makes sexual tastes different from one individual to another. Some like feminine twinks, some like hairy bears, some like crossdressers or trans etc.
So what? Why aren’t we calling straight guys mascuphobes (which isn’t even a term, I tried several different ways to find such a term and it simply doesn’t exist, at least according to google) because they don’t want to date butch women? I have a wide variety of skills and hobbies that would lend themselves to both sides of this spectrum in the general public’s perception and I embrace them unapologetically, but being a gay male means I am a man, that is attracted to what most would call the stereotypical male personality. If I wanted somebody with more feminine… Read more »
I kinda get where you’re coming from but honestly I never see a relationship where both men are fully masculine. There’s always one who’s a little more , if not a lot more, feminine. I think a perfectly balanced relationship is great and I’ve yearned for one, but honestly with the way nature works, chances are everyone is gonna eventually be stuck with someone who’s a little more masculine or feminine than themselves. Seeing as how you prefer masculine, the person you’d end up with would obviously view you as more feminine and that’s okay.
I am so tired of political correctness. I think most of the country is and the result has been Trump. Telling me that I’m being pig-headed for not having interest in or supporting guys who vogue or are one snip by a surgeon’s knife from being a woman. It’s like calling me sexist because I don’t sleep with women. Outside of the lifelong bachelor thing, few people suspect me of being gay, not that I fall to pieces when they figure it out. The heart wants what the heart wants. I do not enjoy having sex with guys who are… Read more »
A long time ago, when I was in the closet and doing things that were regarded as typically masculine, I showed no fear about interacting with guys with femme mannerisms if they crossed my path. If they were friends of friends and I saw them out, I’d speak. I got some stupid looks from people, but that doesn’t matter. If someone chooses to wear nail polish or eye shadow, those things are not attractive to me sexually, as I am visual. I have been around people who wear drag, but I am more impressed by the ones who could pass,… Read more »
Men are biologically wired to be visual creatures. This occurs in every species of animals and I’m tired of society forcing us and shaming us to apologize for being male. Sexual preference and chemistry is just that — it’s what each of us are attracted to, and thank God we’re not all attracted to the same person or only the same people would get laid. Men are attracted to what we’re attracted to and no amount of shaming is going to change biology. However, that doesn’t mean that we have to be dicks about who we’re attracted to. If you’re… Read more »
When did everything turn into a hate label when one happens to not interested in a perticular type of individual? So because I think a young twink in makeup is asinine and ridiculous looking I am now a (insert made up word here)?So tolerant we have become.
I’ve found that almost every guy stating preference for a “masculine” guy is actually feminine-in-nature himself… so when I hear/see that preference I just turn my cheek. REAL masculine men (i.e. straight but willing to fuck submissive men, mostly straight but bicurious) always go for the more feminine or submissive type of guys. They’re turned off by the larger framed, muscular/manly types. So if you get two of these “masculine only” dudes together.. you end up just having two muscle dudes in an awkward situation because both are trying to put off a tough-guy persona when really both just want… Read more »
Nothing turns me off more than someone that resembles my dad/stepdad, or could kick my ass
My experience is different, whatever city I’ve lived in. It must be a sz or color thing, i.e. large capable, blk and reasonably masculine. White guys typically have no idea that I’m gay, black guys have a sharper gay-dar when it comes to “gay-bros.” Black DL’s, they know and I’m masculine enough but pretty enough for them to “wanna-get-with-you” there’s a look they tend to give me when they’re sexually intrigued/aroused. I’ve met very few DL black guys who want me to fuck them; they “love some onion” they’re mostly down with oral either way. White guys/DL’s tent to want… Read more »
The article starts by defining this as a hatred. Hate? Hating peoples you don’t know? Cmon man. I am masculine and all bottom. I say that I am most attracted to a masculine guy. I love strong, muscular guys. I had never been with a fem and had not looked for one. It’s just a preference, but as I found out recently, not an exclusive preference. I recently was with a man who was very fem in appearance and became very attractive to me. He was a very passionate lover and a great top. I hope to have a lot… Read more »
Femininity doesn’t bother me in the slightest. My ex of 4 years was feminine and I’m a bottom too which I found more feminine guys lean more toward vers-tops so maybe my sexual orientation may factor into it?
i find feminine men just as attractive as I find masculine men and I’m more on the masculine side myself. But then I don’t really have a type as I find all kind of men attractive be they skinny or heavy set, black white Asain native etc or masculine and feminine so there is that
There’s too much androphobia or testosteronophobia (not sure of the correct terminology) where so many guys show hatred on their profiles “if you are straight acting I’m not interested”, “if you talk about being masculine, you are insecure”. Too many guys bash masculinity. Men are supposed to be masculine, and women are supposed to be feminine. There’s too much hatred of masculine men nowadays. I’m sick of it. We are treated as “toxic masculine” or as “unnatural” or as “bullies that need to learn sensitivity”. We are already sensitive when we need to be. The bullies are the ones shaming… Read more »
Me and fems: I am a fully masc. bottom looking for a fully masc. top. Passing for straight is NOT an option with me. It is a must. Look like a man, talk like a man, act like a man, conduct yourself like a man. That’s what I want. I’m “switched” to straight the moment I leave the bedroom. I don’t bother them….I want nothing to do with them. They wouldn’t know that I’m a gay MAN anyways. If I wanted someone fem, I’d look for a woman…..at least she’s real. I’m not interested in being around people who insist… Read more »
I am Black, Gay, Dom/Top. Even in gay circles, not everyone sees me as gay. Ive been asked why am I even in a gay bar! So I suppose that Im masculine rather than Fem. I understand that the “old mentality” of hypermasculinity of past–was simply to hide one’s sexuality back when the entire idea of homosexuality was such a negative idea. Remember, gay men have become suicidal simply because they couldn’t accept their own sexuality, because it was a PREFERENCE/CHOICE. Supposedly, we have matured and evolved from back then, I know that I have evolved on the idea. Nowadays,… Read more »
I’m with you there. Full-on masc bottom looking for a full-on masc top. I pass for straight to the point that I can go in a bath house and NOT get dicked.
Studdio has two thoughts on this topic:
The first is on the words femmephobia and femmemisia: a phobia, by definition, is an irrational fear, not necessarily a hatred. Splitting hairs? Sure, but that’s what definitions are all about.
Second: Studdio learned a long time ago that beneath the most nelly and swishy of demeanors, there lurked the most brutal, aggressive, and massively hung tops.
This is how he learned, not to stop judging, but to recognize the limitations of judgement when it’s based on assumptions rather than facts.
I am very attracted to fem guys, but they aren’t attracted to me. : (
Frizzurd, please see Studdio’s reply to rob6913, who posted just after you.
I am a masculine bi male, though I’m really only interested in men sexually. I really like femme guys and especially pre op trans girls. My problem is that I am a submissive bottom and it’s very hard to find femme guys or trans girls that want to top a masculine guy. Especially when you live in a sparsely populated area.
rob6913, Studdio would simply like to cite a piece of advice a good friend of his often repeated:
“No matter what type you are, and no matter what type you like, there are those out there who are the type you like who like the type you are.”
Studdio has observed, in the many years since, that this is abundantly true.
Regardless of how impossible that may seem to you right now, just accept that it’s true, and if you tweak your search methods a few times, you’ll see what you’ve been missing.
Personally, I can tell ya people suck. One guy bashing another cuz they aren’t what they are? Or what they like? I’m easy, don’t judge, unless you wish to be. And personally you don’t know what your missing untill you try it. Some masc guys really suck in bed, and they don’t suck good either. Fem guys pay alot more attention, and usually are more sensual, definitely better kissers. So if your fem and feeling down, see email, use email.
Some people suck. Not all. But the ones that suck are the ones that everyone thinks about. We all need to remember that all kinds of great connections are made between all kinds of great guys daily.
It is even more important to talk about how men of sexual and gender diversity treat each other in general. This goes for bullying, of course, but most importantly for how we react when someone does not find us attractive (sexually or socially) and does not respond positively to our advances. Some grace on the later would go a long way.
I’ve never met a fem guy who wants to date another fem guy.
Sexual preference roles has nothing to do with masculinity in my opinion. How a person appears or behaves is a deal breaker for most when it comes to being attractive sexually. The 2 should not be confused. I’ve had many good friends that were fem/drag. I was not sexually attracted to that. I never thought of them as not being men. They were just a different kind of men.
I don’t see it as femmephobia actually. It’s based on masculinity. I really see it as judging a man based on his degree of masculinity. Men without much masculinity are considered femme. Judging another man based on his degree of masculinity can go to extremes. Little masculinity femme. But then masculine men still might not see another man as masculine enough even if he’s a typical man in his mannerism, speech, dress etc. Some guys will think a real man must like football, or fight, or be a soldier, or not express feelings etc. So we just keep judging each… Read more »
Let’s not forget that those “femme” guys were the forefront of the gay movement. Remember stonewall and this person: . Marsha P. Johnson. I always respect those femme guys because it is really those few who made it possible for all of us gay men to be who we are in public and private. We should be honoring those persons instead of rejecting them as spectacles.
Let’s also remember the “femne” who took a quieter path. For decades, many towns and cities had one or more. Florists, pharmacists, barbers, shop owners of all types. While more effeminate, you’d become impressed with their care and competence in working with you. Their private life was just that… private. Over the years, another worker might be hired, or present at the business. Maybe, if you knew the owner long enough, they’d confide they were “friends” or “business partners” or roommates or more. By then, they had shown themselves to be excellent individuals whose sexuality did not matter. These guys,… Read more »
Years ago I dated a handsome man who was somewhat “fem” in his appearance/walk, or at least, that’s how I perceived it. We were planning to go out to dinner and I asked him if he could “butch it a bit”. His reply to me was “If I’m good enough to fuck, then I’m good enough to go out to dinner as I am, or don’t fuck me.” I’m so grateful that he knew who he was and liked who he was and challenged me. I realized I’d had internalized homophobia/femmephobia, and I needed to change. I didn’t realize it… Read more »
The biggest issue with being gay is to not hate being masculine. The world seems to try and equate being gay with not wanting to be a man, to hating masculinity. For decades Hollywood has made being gay all about being effeminate, it is about time gay men pushed back against that most erroneous stereotype. Gay, is liking other men, or women as the case may be, it has nothing to do with transgenderism or the like. The very creation of “LGBTQ” is a social construct: branding us, so as to use us, politically. The greatest threat is NOT to… Read more »
As far as i’am concerned i take no issue with Feminine Guys, because all Men have qualities that could be labeled Feminine. Some guys are over the top with it, others are fine with having some fem qualities, and then you have Men that go out of their way go overboard trying not to even have a slim chance of even showing any quality that can be said is Feminine. No matter how much you try to hide the fact that there is a Masculine/Feminine trait we all have. Women have it too. It’s the ying/yang of humanity. Get in… Read more »
I’m not femphobic I’m just not sexually attracted to feminine men at all. Wouldn’t mind being casual friends with feminine men