(Photo Credits: Prostock-studio from Shutterstock)
A lesbian redditor recently posted a genuine question that sparked a flurry of thoughtful responses from gay men. She asked: “Why is masc4masc such a problem in gay male community? -From a lesbian” She added, “No hate, genuinely asking. Because in lesbian community, fem4fem is not an ick at all. Of course, masc hate is a thing in wlw community (just like fem hate in mlm one), but no one judges/hates fem4fem lesbians. Why is masc4masc considered weird or rude in gay community?”
Her question opened the floodgates to a complex and layered discussion about attraction, presentation, identity politics, and the baggage that often comes with dating preferences in the gay community.
One gay man pointed out something rarely said aloud: “I’ve also noticed that feminine or ‘intermediate’ type of gay men who attract more masculine men are HATED on by other feminine gays who do not attract such men.” There’s a deep social dynamic around desirability here—especially when one group feels overlooked by the men they desire and sees others being chosen instead.
Another guy shared, “I think it’s because most feminine gay men want masculine men. I haven’t really seen fem4fem among gay men.” Someone responded, “I’ve seen a few, here and there, it’s disappointing when the attraction doesn’t go both ways but that’s life.” In other words, it might come down to numbers—fem4fem is rare among gay men, so masc4masc becomes more visible and more contested. Do you agree with this, guys?
Others dug into the psychology and culture behind the controversy: “There’s nothing wrong with having a preference, there are just a lot of layers attached to this one.” They added that “masc4masc” is often coded with internalized homophobia, but also said that the term gets misused: “People who feel the need to outwardly state they are ‘masc4masc’ are not all that masculine… which is where the ‘weird’ aspect comes in.”
Some readers were blunt: “Sour grapes & hypocrisy. People often get upset at others having exclusionary preferences, while completely ignoring their own exclusionary preferences.”
In addition, another guy said, “It’s not a problem if that’s what you’re into. Being attracted to like doesn’t imply internalized homophobia. That can be the case, but not always.” The problem, many agreed, isn’t the preference—it’s when it’s used to demean or erase others.
One thoughtful comment offered more context: “A masculine guy can usually pass for straight, and won’t usually be the subject of harassment. But feminine men get rejected by society AND other gay men… so they get really bitter when they see masc4masc.”
Meanwhile, some gay men were totally unbothered: “This is only said to be a problem by fem men who can’t take rejection. For the majority of the community, nobody gives a f*ck.”
Lastly, someone put it simply: “It’s come to a point where just having a preference is considered rude AF.”
Having said all, what do you think, Adam4Adam blog readers? Is masc4masc problematic, or are we overanalyzing personal tastes?
Moreover, do you see a difference between preference and prejudice? Is masc4masc a real issue or an overblown talking point? Have you ever been judged for your type—or felt invisible in a sea of labels? Let us know your thoughts and experiences in the comments section down below.
People should spend more time minding their own business and let people live
adding, how about people should be spending more time getting educated to dwell on the important things and not on the trivial things?
we like labels as labels help us categorize and control.
I think the problem lies with people putting too much importance on being labelled…as words, labels only have the importance the beholden rest upon them.
as I mentioned prior. Labels identify, categorize and compartmentalize. It is containment and control. When you its identity; you can find it and place it…accordingly… .
There’s nothing wrong with having preferences–even racial ones. I’m Black, and I don’t want to “shame” anyone into sleeping with me. The problem is when you treat others disparagingly BECAUSE of your preferences–which an overwhelming amount of gay men do.
Half of these “debates” wouldn’t exist if men knew how to properly give and take rejection.
The problem, is that a multitude of men have very fragile egos. Guys can’t accept the rejection of not being desired by another male.
I’d much rather be told no thanks, than strung along with bullshit.
Well said.
Agreed.
It’s unhealthy to want to be with people who don’t want to be with you.
People get upset by it because it’s historically (though not exclusively) associated with shaming guys that aren’t as masculine as well as fetishizing ones that are. That said, I think anyone should be able to openly state their preferences on a dating app of all places. I’m fat, and never once have I held it against anyone if they fail to express interest because of it. De gustibus non est disputandum.
res vera caput tollit?
Certus vero.
Es Verdad
When did we drift from Latin to Spanish?
I don’t know Latin, but I heard Plato was a good guy….
Socrates liked to “Sock It” to everyone!
it was the way the wind was blowing so I went with the flow!
additionally, Spanish is a Language based on The Romance Languages…all derived from Latin… .
Your erudition is fascinating. Please, tell us more.
no less; no more than yours. now, I’ve told you everything!
Personally, I don’t see where masc4masc is a problem. It’s a choice, just like every other criteria we use, when choosing a bed buddy.
Leave it to a lesbian to politicize something. Just another attack on men.
The main issue is that penitration is exerted with masc4masc people and various STDs are more susceptible to occur vs fem4fem people. Lesbians can wear strap-ons to simulate their masculine position in the relationship, yet, STDs are no where a possibility between them. If this possibility was mutual, then, this would be a moot point of inquiry.
apparently you’re serious
Imagine thinking lesbians can’t contract STDs. How has a person like this even survived into adulthood? Jesus fucking Christ.
Okay, I’ve got to ask:
WHERE is ANY information for your claim?
I would take that health stance if you were talking about guys with high sexual activity #’s.
It’s your PREFERENCE…just like body type, age, height, etc..
I’ve received an E-Mail out of the blue from a guy on here mad at me that he was not what kind of man I was looking for. Never heard of the guy & he decided to send this.
So, I agree with some of the comments in the article: WHO is making the claim that “fem” is a negative thing – fem guys or others?
I agree. Personally, I do not see it as a problem. I prefer to know what a potential partner is into, as it makes meeting easier and less likely to disappoint. If someone doesn’t like my preferences, then they shouldn’t contact me.
This is a non-issue to me…. I live and let live….
Some things in life, you just have to let it off your back-like rain off of a duck’s back.
That is to say, 3/5’s of my “white” friends have/would never, have sex with a “black” person, period; is the same as myself, having had feminine gay men BBF; but couldn’t/wouldn’t ‘ever’ be sexually attracted to someone as such.
I’m just more attracted to men like me, who overwhelmingly, feel like men, primarily; not “acting” but just is.
I make no excuses and no apologies. Yeah, I am one of those men that is masc4masc. I don’t give a crap if others don’t like it. It isn’t about you. It is my preference, so maybe not yours. And I certainly don’t look down upon or not value the effeminate dudes in our community. I don’t shame them. I would defend their lives with mine and I have. I just prefer to fuck masc men. We all have our preferences and that is a great thing! The beauty of our community is that it is so incredibly diverse so… Read more »
poor thing, wasting her life looking for hate where there is none
For me it simply boils down to what attracts me. I’m masculine and I’m attracted to other masculine men. I also have my preferences for race, body type, etc. It doesn’t mean that anyone who falls outside of my preferences are bad people or should be ashamed, but I may not be attracted.
It’s not a problem. The only people who say it is a “problem” are effeminate guys who can’t nab the dates they desire and feminists who believe all “masculinity” is inherently evil.
I’m surprised to see all of the different responses to this article (all of which are appreciated for showing different opinions/mindsets…) but alas, I’m even more surprised to not see any mention of the Elephant in the room: Feminine men are considered less attractive & Masculine men are considered more attractive (Feminine men are generally more desired/fetishized behind closed doors… Masculine men are considered safer to be seen with in public/around friends and family for those individuals who are not completely out or just don’t want anyone to look at them as stereotypes… ie, those who take their image too… Read more »
I would like the lesbian redditor asking the question to explain why women use “lipstick lesbian” and “bull dyke” to describe what they’re looking for.
I’ve heard those terms before. I believe “lipstick lesbian” is the kind that likes being a woman and looking like a lady, and “bull dyke” is the kind that purposely looks anything but female (and sadly unhealthlyingly blimp up) more like one of us.guys.
Me and a friend joked about this very thing a few days ago. “Masc 4 masc” he’s fem and says some guys says he’s too fem for them… Me personally I’m “masc” but don’t have a preference as far as partners being masc or fem. I’ve dated hyper masc men before and RuPaul like guys lol. Too each its own. I also see a lot of T4T slot these days on apps… That’s a whole other cand of worms though
Dumb love all types here
I am only into masculine, white hairy men 50-65yrs old
Though masc verse guys are my pref- I do love hungry femme bottoms. They are equally as fun.
It’s not a problem at all. The problem is the intrusions by vaginas who think they can be penises. And men with inflated boobs.
I thought it was the other way around. I like trans and feminine men and I would get a lot of flack for that. But that’s what brought me into this world and what I know. Everyone sees things through their own lens so I could be wrong.
Me being a man that prefers masc men would NEVER EVER give you flack for that. Love is Love and Attraction is Attraction. Whom you prefer to love and sleep with, as long as over the age of 18, if you are, is your fucking business! Bottom line! BOOM! Dude, you are NOT WRONG!! Your opinion matters! Hugs to you bud.
I am a very masculine and dominant man, if you saw me or knew me like my friends and family, you’d never think I’d bend over for anutha man,,but behind closed doors with a very masculine and dominant man my submissiveness and feminine side comes out,, I’ve been with guys that are turned on by masculine married man being feminine and submissive to them behind closed doors, but I said all that to say fem guys appreciate guys like you, masculine4masculine could also mean, I want a masculine guy in the street, but a feminine guy in the sheets
When I meet guys on A4A or any site and we’re chatting, I let them know point blank, I am a very masculine married man, and dominant in my everyday appearance, but behind closed doors with a man I like to be become his wo-man in panties or a jockstrap, some say that’s hot , then some say they perfer me to wear a jockstrap which is fine with me also,
why should I care about what some fish thinks?
I’m older. A lot of it is because young gay men use dating apps to meet men. In the old days you went to the bars and cruised. If you approached someone because of their looks – or they you – it was evident very quickly if there was a connection or not. If not, you moved on. Trying to find a guy to fuck now – or date – is too much of a phone scrolling thing and not seeing real people in real life.
And it would be a lot easier if we had some kinda secret way to tell if a guy is into guys , and tell if he was a top or a bottom without exposing yourself to the wrong person, some guys are obviously out and a lots of guys are DL like myself, it’s more and more guys being with other men theses days , but most of us do want to come out or be outed, I’m a married DL bottom, although I’ve excepted I’m bi/gay I don’t want to come out or be outed, I would love… Read more »
For friendships, I care more about the person than the personality traits. Are they kind? Are they good listeners? Can they hold a conversation? The Masc4Masc has no business here. I have friends of all types and traits. For sexual attractions and dating or hook up sites it is appropriate if you are only attracted to a specific trait. Saying Masc4Masc in a profile is no different than saying you are only interested in men over 6-foot, or blue eyes, tops only, bottoms only, etc. It is merely a way of narrowing the field. For some Masc4Fem is appropriate. The… Read more »