Bullying: Is Fat Shaming a Problem in the LGBT Community?

(Photo Credits: iDominick [CC BY-SA 2.0])

Is fat shaming helpful or not? We are bringing this up because currently, there’s a discussion on the Twitterverse about fat shaming brought about by a statement made by US talk show host Bill Maher where he said, “Fat shaming doesn’t need to end, it needs to make a comeback.” Maher added, “Some amount of shame is good. We shamed people out of smoking and into wearing seat belts. We shamed them out of littering and most of them out of racism. Shame is the first step in reform.”

Fellow TV host James Corden weighed in on the issue and said on his show:

Fat shaming never went anywhere. Ask literally any fat person. We are reminded of it all the time. There’s a common and insulting misconception that fat people are stupid and lazy, and we’re not…. We know that being overweight isn’t good for us and I’ve struggled my entire life trying to manage my weight and I suck at it. I’ve had good days and bad months.

Corden further explained, “It’s proven that fat shaming only does one thing. It makes people feel ashamed and shame leads to depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior like overeating.”

Research shows that indeed, it is as Corden says, fat shaming gives rise to depression, attempted suicide, and other psychological and eating disorders like bulimia and anorexia. Hence, on top of being dangerous, not only does it not work but fat shaming has been proven to be counterproductive. In fact, studies reveal that people who were bullied and discriminated against because of their weight “not only had a greatly reduced chance of weight loss, they actually tended to gain weight and become obese.” 

That being said, how prevalent is fat shaming in the LGBT community, guys? 

A survey among gay men aged 18-78 published in Psychology of Sexual Orientation and Gender Diversity says that more than one in three gay men have been fat shamed or rejected by other men because of their weight. A separate study among gay and straight college students on the other hand, revealed that an overweight person is most likely to be “blatantly ignored, treated rudely, or mocked” when they approach an “attractive potential romantic partner.” The study then concluded that not only is anti-fat bias a challenge for many in the LGBT community including those who are not actually overweight but “gay men expect other gay men to show these anti-fat biases when looking for a romantic partner.” Read the article by Gay Times Magazine in full here.

What about you, guys? Have you ever experienced rejection because of your weight? How often do you observe/encounter fat shaming online and in real life? Share with us your thoughts and stories in the comments section below. Oh and keep in mind that fat shaming (like any other type of bullying) is NOT tolerated on Adam4Adam. If anyone sends you fat shaming messages, please report the user and we’ll take care of warning this person and take the proper action so that it doesn’t happen again!

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  1. Jim

    As a bigger guy I can attest to having been fat shamed as recently as 2 days ago. I have struggled with my weight most of my life and am now finding as I am getting older, if my age does not disqualify from a guy being interested, my size does. I have managed to drop almost 60 pounds this past year and yet I am still a bit of a bigger guy. I am realizing because of my body build I am never going to be one of these super lean guys. I am always going to have a big beefy build. Interestingly I am also listed on a site that caters to bigger guys and chasers and have had little success even there. I know some guys look at it as being honest and some approach it in a mean way. I will keep on my weight loss journey in the hopes I finally reach a point where some men will find me an acceptable size. I currently weigh in at 250 pounds so not sure how much smaller I need to get.

    • Luigi Nonono

      You only need to be healthy and content. There are guys who will adore you, just let them find you. Try Growlr. 250, I wish I could get down to there.

      • Lamar

        Yeah, right, I see often enough handsome big men I’d love to be squished under, lol, and at my height I can pin then under me and they won’t disappear, lol.

  2. Luigi Nonono

    Bill Maher is a specious agitator. For years now, I have seen gay men afraid to be seen eating in front of each other, let alone to eat french fries. It is ridiculous. Blame it on the exploiters and their six-pack bullshit. But why do gay men always fall for such crap? I find six-packs repulsive. We’re not meant to look like turtle shells. I lost a boyfriend because he vainly insisted on achieving zero-percent body fat, and to this day, he looks gaunt and haggard. Thankfully, there are many young men who love men with bellies.

  3. Paul

    The smaller the city, the narrower the minds. I have been rejected based on weigh, age, looks. Anyone will find a flaw with anyone. No one could ever meet the unrealistic expectations we put on our “perfect” physical partners. Comments like “no fats, or over weight guys” or “only interested in other fit or musc guys” are still very prevalent on apps like Grindr, A4A, Scruff, and even Growlr. It’s called a “preference” instead of a bias but it boils down to the same thing. All it really does is make really decent guys afraid to date or go after who they want and keeps the people with the bias from meeting someone who might be the perfect emotional and mental fit just because they weren’t the perfect physical fit. My thoughts are, “I may not be exactly what you want, but I may be exactly what you need.”

  4. Charles Ratcliff

    I don’t encounter shaming, necessarily, but I am in message threads all the time where the other person is attempting to get a visual on weight and if the pictures I have available don’t assist (and they don’t, because people don’t take or use pics that aren’t flattering), then all you are left with is a very fragile dialog. My thinking is that it applies to all communication where there is no a comfortable familiarity for the question to be asked so the same issue exists when asking about race, cock size, sexual role, masculinity, and a number of others I’m sure, but weight is one of those things that is relative to a degree and subjective to a point, so there are a lot of us that consider ourselves to be overweight, but not fat and visversa. It’s only in commenting that I realise that all this factors considered, there are those that are probably always put through it and those that are never put through it and I believe it’s all about clarity and confidence. I know who I am, but I haven’t always. I learned to describe myself in a way that expresses my size not my weight. That number you see on the scale is not who you are, sure there are people who look exactly like what they weigh the that number looks different on everyone. So love and accept what you bring to the table and then figure out the best way to describe it and be honest but not negative. Don’t use words that you thing are negative (for me it’s the word “husky” from childhood) and keep it simple. Remember, you are only trying to fill in a couple of blanks that your pics didn’t cover.
    When all is said and done, if your size/weight matters so much that someone needs to still ask if you’re “fat”? You have to know that they aren’t worth your time and they may or may not ever get a clue. There are plenty of situations (trust me, I am a big boy but I am blown away when I see some of the couplings between different types of guys……. It’s inspiring, to me, to see that because the older I get the more I think I am willing to change some of my criteria for a love interest….and I am.
    but just for sex, I find I’m not that willing to change what I want just for sex and I find that when it’s just sex, men tend to put getting laid out in front of everything else, so being big might not matter as much if you can fuck and that is a complete can turn off to me. It’s a shallow pool, of shallow values, with somewhat shallow people. So know who you are and they will respect you no matter what happens.

  5. Randy

    It works other way, also… I am shamed because I am skinny…or scrawny. The solution–be happy with who you are and embrace the people who like you just because.

    • anonimatovato

      I was about to say that. Some people think I avoid meals. Nah, I love to eat, I weight around 125 lbs, I keep myself as healthy as possible, but people do think I skip meals, or say how lucky I am to weight that way, but that’s not all about me.

  6. John

    But you also got to take some pride in yourself as well. I’m fat, chubby, big boned ..or whatever you wanna call it.. but I have never been “afraid” to eat in front of someone…like the previous post suggests. I get the fat jokes from friends/cowokers that I know, (and I felt no shame about it) but I turn it into a joke and then come up with an even better joke to say about the person who said I was fat. You have to know how to take it and laugh it off and just live sometimes, instead of constantly worrying about what somebody else thinks of you. Now as to the physical touching and physical abuse of fat that just won’t be tolerated. Touch me if you want…I’m not gonna just take it and go crying in the corner…Periodt. Also, we’re talking about how many people have ignored us on dating apps and such because we are bigger..but the “fat community” isn’t innocent in all of this either. I’ve seen many big guys who have hit up fit guys on apps or social media and have gotten ignored, and then get mad….but they don’t wanna hit up another big guy themselves. So how can you cry wolf when a fit guy ignores you..when you’re also ignoring the other bigger guy who just hit you up on that same app.

  7. Hunter0500

    Age shaming.
    Build shaming.
    Pretty face shaming.
    Race shaming.
    Nationality shaming.
    Height shaming.
    Facial hair shaming.
    Body hair shaming.
    “On PrEP” shaming.
    Bareback shaming.
    L shaming.
    G shaming.
    T shaming.
    B shaming.
    Q shaming.
    Straight shaming.
    Closeted shaming.

    Fat shaming? Many members of “the Community” are all to willing to shame countless others about just about anything. Fat shaming is just another shaming. So much for “community.”

    I’ve been shamed/rejected by countless people over the years about one thing or another. Without fail, they were each not someone who mattered to me and, therefore, whose opinion mattered either. Just because someone shames you in any way doesn’t mean you’re somehow marginalized or somehow lower than them. You’re just not “tops” in their opinion about something and they (who knows why!) feel entitled to make sure you’re gonna know it.

    Leave it as their loss. Karma has a funny way of catching up to people.

    • N.Z.H.


      Truly, it was “Sock-It-To-Me” time!

      As always, you remain Divine & Inspirational! You eviscerate your enemies and remind them who remains “Supreme”!

      Nathan bows his head to you as you approximated what Nathan though about “Fat Shaming” but who wanted to let “Sleeping-Dogs-Lie”!

      Hugs & Kisses to you! Continue to “Stir-The-Pot” with those fearsome arms of your and that prodigiously-shaped ladle!


    • David Dorwart

      Men in general, and gay men even more so, are visually oriented (lookist) and having a gym body also counters claims of lack of masculinity (whatever that actually means these days). That being said, watch any documentary (like Ken Burns current “Country Music”) and you are immediately struck with how thin people were, even just two generations ago. I’m not one for shaming people, but I am one for pointing out a health crisis of morbid obesity and it’s contribution to diabetes, heart disease, cancer and all kinds of orthopedic problems, many of which are being seen a couple decades earlier than in previous generations. So, yes, I have problems with all the cooking and food shows featuring morbidly obese hosts and calling to task health professionals (or anyone) raising the health issue as fat shaming. Smoking isn’t good for your health, nor is eating the wrong kind and amounts of foot so that you are grossly overweight. Accepting this is a form of enabling.

  8. Charles Ratcliff

    I used to be fat shamed Everytime I turned around then I met a friend that showed me how to look at myself through a more positive lense. I had to change my opinion about my weight so that I could change the focus of wherever the fat shaming was coming from. People that have never had an issue with weight are the only ones that fat shame. So, consider the source and ignore them. When it’s ignorance not intellect it’s much easier to discount. If you haven’t walked a mile in my shoes them don’t talk to me about wide widths.

  9. Eric

    No one should be fat shaming others. That being said, we’re attracted to whom we’re attracted to. I have found some bigger guys unattractive, as well as some skinny guys, as well as the complete opposite. Love yourself for who you are.

    I have encountered bigger guys playing the victim game. I have a friend that is well over 400 pounds, does not carry the weight well in my opinion, he whines on social media constantly about guys not being attracted to him because of his weight, and all of his other posts are about food. Literally, he will talk about all of these huge meals he cannot wait to eat, sometimes while posting a mini-buffet of food he is already eating.

    One of the best lovers I ever had was obese by the standards set forth by doctors. He was sexy AF. For me, attraction varies on a variety of factors. I would never fat shame someone. My weight has always been a bit of a struggle as well. I have personally and publicly spoken up about fat shaming.

    In general though, I will say a lot of gay men are bullies. I have had people message me with no other purpose to say I am ugly, look like a fucking idiot, or whatever else they decide to say. Amazing that a group that has had to fight so hard for everything is so fucking ugly as a whole.

  10. Kev

    As with anything else when have these types of discussions, it depends on what is considered fat-shaming. Some guys will say it’s referring to very overweight guys as stupid or lazy. Some guys will claim that it’s stating “no fats or…” on profiles. Some guys will argue that simply not being sexually attracted to overweight men is discriminatory. Some people are ridiculously sensitive, and some people are not very considerate of others at all. I think James Corden is being ridiculously sensitive here. Bill Maher was clearly basing his statements on the obesity epidemic in the U.S. Overweight is becoming the majority, and it isn’t a good thing for people or the healthcare system. Stating such isn’t fat-shaming.

    As far as the gay community goes, people are -and should be – free to state what they like. A lot of fit guys say “no fats” and a lot of overweight guys talk about how “repulsive” low body fat looks. How individuals go about expressing their preferences does reflect on their characters, but they are still free to express themselves in any way that doesn’t violate ToS. We are all adult men. If you can’t handle another guy’s opinion, maybe you should log out or turn the channel.

  11. NoMoFoMe

    No more than in any other group, in reality. The Mango Mussolkni fat shames women all the time, and he’s BLIMP!

    BREAKING NEWS: Ed Buck, the longtime methhead wackjob Democratic donor and WeHo wannabe city council candidate who was probably the proximate cause of three (or more) black men dying of meth overdoses has FINALLY been arrested and is facing an effective life sentence. The gay community’s carefully hidden meth addiction secret once again is in the headlines…and may now go to a public trial. About time!

  12. Dave

    The LGBT community has gone out of its way to be accepting to bigger guys; the existence of the “bear” community is proof. It’s been fetishized into a subset of the larger LGBT community. From my exp bears are usually interested in other bears and it seems like a fairly exclusive sub-community within LGBT. Incredibly easy for bears find other bears and be comfortable in their own skin around guys who look like them. The original question “is fat shaming a problem in the LGBT community” is largely rhetorical. A much bigger problem is the fact that so many in the LGBT community look for things to be upset about that simply aren’t there in significant numbers (i.e. racism, sexism, trans-phobia, now fat-shaming, what’s next????)

  13. RedPilledinSC

    Welcome to 1984. I tried to make a comment but it didn’t follow the mandatory LGBT Democrap party line. Better luck next time?

  14. lonnie long

    I dont know about fat shaming in the gay community but it seems when you hit 30, gay life changes, unless you meet someone who isn’t in it for the sex, to me gay and straight men seem to be getting younger and younger partners almost to the point they look like kids. The whole dad son thing grosses me out along with the brother on brother, we as gay men need to look at some of these gay and straight kid chasers and call them what they are, pedophiles. We need to call them out and not less them shame the gay community. We already have enough to deal with.

  15. Luigi Nonono

    So, if you doubt me, an app brought me an 18-year-old, later 19, blond, wrestler, utterly fabulous and dedicated to pleasing me. Chub lovers are out there. Some are hiding. Support them. Fat is very sexy. You can’t squeeze hard muscles. They just sit there.

  16. marc

    I think that body shaming is wrong no matter what the situation. I have never met a person who was perfect. I feel that this is more of a American issue than in other countries. I’ve noticed that men are celebrated no matter their size in other countries. More importantly, they have the confidence to flaunt what they have to show. I think the main thing is to be happy with yourself and not depend on the shallow opinions of others. Self-love is the key to true happiness; accepting yourself brings peace. If someone needs to loose weight for medical reasons, that is different. I expect that someone who really cares about them will tell that person, not some vacuous idiot.

    • Marcus

      Thanks Marc,
      I was about to comment until I read yours. I agree with everything you said. Noone should body shame anyone. I’m a gym rat and work very hard on my body and on a food management diet for life. I acknowledge everyone in my gym no matter what size they are. Overweight obese people know they’re overweight so it make no sense to remind them of it with rude stares and offensive comments.

  17. Steven Kerry

    Fat-shaming is just one more reason why being gay is (in some ways) great, but hardly “gay”. Let’s not forget the others: 1. Age-shaming (had this happen to me unexpectedly at a so-called “hipster” dance bar I went to regularly on weekends at which a (dare I say it?) fat lesbian bar-back made a snarky remark about my age (my god…I’m a ’70s gen AIDS epidemic survivor; why not give me a medal and free cocktail instead??) 2. HIV Poz shaming. Oh well, at least we now know that gay men can be just as dumb about topics of serious relevance to themselves as anyone else. One need look no farther than hook-up sites to see the far-reaching level of stupidity regarding how HIV is transmitted. You’d think they either don’t have computers or think The Google is an obscure dance craze rather than a simple means of obtaining current information. 3. Penis-shaming. This one has all but sexually crippled a portion of our community. It is quite common to see gay men lying and misrepresenting their penises in profiles. Ever lived with a man with a big cock and the character and personality of an immature, selfish, and self-aggrandizing boy? There are plenty of them out there. Meanwhile, men with smaller or average penises are at the mercy of obsessive size queens who would not be satisfied with an elephant’s leg up their cabooses.

  18. Steve

    The gay community is the most judgmental out there. You have otters, bears, cubs, twinks, daddies. There are so many categories out there. Hung, average, small among penis size. They call these “tribes” which is absolutely ridiculous. So I’m sorry but I feel no pity towards the gay community. I’ve never been so judged based on my looks as when I came out.

  19. Doug

    I agree with Bill Maher It worked for the cigarettes. No i do not think of fat as a disease any more than i would consider my nasty habit of biting my nails a disease. Both fatties and I need keep our hands away from our mouth. Calling it a disease, not my fault, becomes justification from owing the responsibility. I was a fat child thru high school. then i left my parents and learned to manage my weight by switching to healthy foods and exercise. i am glad I did. Mathematically Weight is matter of calories in vs calories burned No excuse fatties..
    As to gays, my generation wanted to look their best physically.. Today…. well when was it a fatty last saw his own dick without using mirror tricks or rolling some of the blob aside, By the way homos did you know your dick will appear longer when you shed the lbs.. That should be motivation.

  20. Scott

    There is definitely fat shaming in the LGBT Community. I been fat shame plenty of times and sometimes been blocked on A4A for being overweight. Despite little success on trying to lose weight. I’m 5’6”, 220 and know that I need to get to 160-175. In Ft. Lauderdale/Miami area, the perfect guy for most is 5’8” and taller but weight of 200 and less.

  21. Skunch

    I’m a chubby guy, but I dont think I can shame someone into liking my body if they aren’t into me. Much like any other bias, anti-fat behavior is trained into us at young age. I dont think we can change current minds about fat people, but can encourage the coming generations to be more tolerant and welcoming to various body types.

  22. Lamar

    I can’t stand how perfection-driven many gay men tend to be; the most discriminating creatures on earth about a great many aspects, bar-none. I find so many body-facial-skin-types attractive in their own way, I think the world is much more beautiful, when you can see different aspects of beauty-appeal, just like in different races of people. Sometimes, many times, such as with my ex, who tended to be a little over weight but well built, muscular with a bit of a tummy, lol, furry like a teddy-bear, cuddly. I like opposites of myself, though, I love the exploration of another body differently shaped-built than mine, color, too. I honestly think, a lot of the hate-shade gay men give each other, has more to do with themselves frankly, makes them feel better about their own insecurity/s. Shaming about ones physical being has a very negative effect.

    Some people are meant to carry more weight; bigger bone-structures, like my ex. John- Goodman for example of the “Rosanne Barr show”, I found him, kind of attractive, which had to do with ‘his character’ as well as I thought he was kind of cute with all that hair and the way his eyes disappear when he smiles.

    It’s a matter of looking through much broader-lenses. Obesity though, is among many epidemics, so before you criticize, think again, some people are actually starving, malnourished
    and obese, believe it or not. Americas food basket is a mess; killing people whom can’t afford or live in what is known as “food desserts.” And all they have access to is cheap poor-quality fast-foods; laden with harmful-fats, too many calories and chemicals coined as “obesogens.”

    All I desire, is a man whom is at least moderately attractive, so the better of his being, lies within his spirit-soul and character, just so he’s mentally/physically/spiritually healthy is what matters.

  23. Sig

    Seriously, how is this an issue? Some people like chubs, others don’t. Everyone has preferences. It seems the whole concept is to force people to have sex with those they don’t like. A despotic bedroom police state would be the result. There is nothing crazier than to expect sex to be egalitarian. To use the idea of diversity to enforce uninamity is Orwell for Dummies. While it’s nice to imagine a kumbaya state of affairs, it is unreasonable to expect a gym rat to find a couch potato attractive. There are fetish groups that cater to this area, but it would seem that this complaint is all about trying to have one’s cake and eat it too. If one wants to be overweight, then don’t expect to play with those that don’t find that attractive. That’s life, get on with it.

  24. Jay

    I’ve reported and blocked profiles very recently on A4A after being build-shamed when I lift 7x a week and at the gym for 5x a week. I’ve also been fat-shamed in the recent past because I’m 5’6 at 220 and have more of a rugby (or realistically st8 build). And these messages have usually came from those who don’t lift or invest ANY time at the gym. So physically, I compete with the steroid-fueled instagays, models, pornstars, gay bar pole-dancers and anorexic twinks. Because I put “muscular” on my profile, I get pigeonholed with guys who cheat their physical looks, who help create an unrealistic standard for me and everyone else. And we also forget, that everyone’s body chemistry is different, not everyone will look the same with the same workout routine, diet, etc. There are days and weeks or seasons, I look more bloated when it’s colder out, and I look more toned when it’s warmer.

    It boils down to misinformation and lack of education as at least the older generations of gays are actually, mostly not athletic, last but not least, its also disrespect and destructive to the so-called sense of community.

  25. Jim

    When did we become so delicate that someone’s OPINION can cause someone to feel shame. It use to be you were ashamed because you actually did something wrong that affected others. Apparently you can now take the English language and bastardize any word. We no longer have a filter on our own selfishness. Self-aggrandizement has become our normal. Twitter, instagram, Facebook has made everyone’s story so self-important that we take every little differing opinion like a punch in the teeth and then overreact. President Dipshit actually is perfect for this society. Selfish, narcissistic, overly sensitive bigot who hears only what he wants or cares to hear. Everything else useless. Fat-shaming is the issue? Let me know when stupid-shaming becomes something. Oh wait, that’s what sarcasm is. My bad.

  26. Renard

    I don’t ‘fat shame’ – but I don’t play with out-of-shape dudes either. Generally, I do find overweight people to be very unattractive. However, it’s unnecessary to deliberately be mean, rude, or disrespectful – and proffer opinions that were not solicited.

  27. Bob

    Definitely fat shaming exists in the gay community, just look at any 20 posts on here and you will see it. What I find especially condescending is when fit men will say I only want to be with other healthy men. They blame it on health, like I can’t be with you non healthy men. Which if you really read that is a whole other type of bigotry. But then you see them using steroids, participating in drugs and heavy drinking and bareback orgies. Oh sure, that’s healthy. Give me a break. The gay community if quite often shallow and unkind.

  28. anonimatovato

    The reporters did bring a good point. Most of the food being available is filled with sugar and crap. Modern day lifestyle makes people less active when you can order food on an app instead of actually driving or walking there.

  29. Frizzurd

    I put up a picture of my torso without a shirt just so people realize what my body shape is like. I am 5’11 and 215 lbs..have pot belly and man boobs. Assholes on Grindr message me, and then insult me after getting past my face pic. Oh well, better than being lead on/manipulated etc.

    • Danny!

      Go ahead ahead and add fart & belch sound bites. It’s easy to attach mp3 and other audio files. They will multi-modally complete your profile so others will have a complete “picture” of you!

  30. Steve

    Trump calling Rosie O’Donnell a pig is fat-shaming (and then some, obviously).
    But if I say Corden is overweight, am I fat-shaming? Because pretty clearly, he is overweight.
    On the other hand, I think he’s fuckin’ adorable and when he first came to my attention I found myself hoping he was on our team.
    Some years back when you could still get laid via Craig’s List, someone posted asking what HWP stood for. So I posted a stock medical insurance Height Weight Proportion table in response.
    Naturally I got called an asshole, where did I get off when I probably didn’t meet those standards, etc.
    But I wasn’t saying everyone should fit that table or that, more importantly, if you didn’t fit the table you were a pig. Someone wanted to know what the guideline was so I provided it.
    Are those tables realistic? Dunno; they’ve certainly evolved over time. But if you wonder where you fall — whether you are legitimately overweight (or under, for that matter) — it’s a convenient reference. [I do accept that the charts don’t allow for a number of important variables: A gym bunny, who by the grace of muscle weighing more than fat, would — by the numbers — read as “heaver” than someone with a less medically desirable BMI.]
    Despite all the “but you’re so thin” remarks I get, I’m a good 10# heavier than I want to be, and probably 15-20# over per the charts. (Let’s be brutally honest: By “gay standards,” I’m fat.)
    But I’m also of an age where the possibility of fixing that is getting less likely so I’ve also accepted that it’s one of several factors keeping me single.
    Here’s where it gets interesting, though: I would say I’ve been rejected based on my weight by men far more out-of-shape than I am (though whom I still found attractive … what can I say: I like linebacker types) because … drum-roll … the community has conditioned them to seek out the ideal body type even when they can’t or at least haven’t yet attained it themselves.
    Such is life.
    And James Corden is STILL [statistically] overweight.
    But totes adorbs.

  31. Big Kel

    So, to recap, this is an article about GAY fat shaming. Yet, you pick two STRAIGHT men to make generic comments about HETEROSEXUAL fat shaming…

  32. Luigi Nonono

    I’m not sure there is even a gay community. What passes for community is PC groupthink, and if you’re not into that, if you’re not following the latest shallow trend, you’re out of it. There are few of the things that really construct community. It’s not bars and baths, that’s for sure.

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